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General => General Discussion => Topic started by: hdvprojection on March 18, 2012, 04:17:47 AM

Title: Ripping festival trailer DVD to DCP (ultimately)
Post by: hdvprojection on March 18, 2012, 04:17:47 AM
OK, so here's the deal. I'm projecting for a film festival, and the festival trailer reel DVD they have given me is positively atrocious. It's 4:3 (everything else we are showing is 16:9 or 16:9 wide). It's not even 720x480 from what I can tell just glancing at it... looks more like it was shot on someone's phone. It's autoplay with the title card and color bars in front, all one file, so no way to bypass that except either to douse it manually or pause after the color bars.

And finally, it's DVD. I have to play it, then switch macro channels on the NEC projector, and also switch audio inputs so that I can then run the actual features off the Doremi server. It's awkward and unprofessional, to put it as mildly as I can.

On to my proposed solution. I'm on Ubuntu Linux. I can easily rip the DVD and edit the resulting video file so as to crop out the title card and color bars, using either Pitivi or Avidemux. I also have WinFF at my disposal if there is some further conversion that needs to take place. But to what file format(s) do I in fact need to save the resulting video file?

Finally, how do I use opendcp to produce my final d-cinema packages? I glanced at it briefly, and it seemed fairly intuitive. Any tips or tricks?

Quality is not an issue here, nor is there any proprietary/DRM/HDCP obstacle. I just need to produce a DCP asap. Any help is very much appreciated. Thanks to all in advance.
Title: Re: Ripping festival trailer DVD to DCP (ultimately)
Post by: hdvprojection on March 18, 2012, 06:01:41 PM
Already figured one bit out: Pitivi exports to .mxf. However, opendcp doesn't seem to like the resulting file.
Code: [Select]
The selected file is not a valid MXF picture track.Obviously, for the purposes of DCinema, the video file needs to adhere to certain parameters. So now the question is: what parameters? Thanks.
Title: Re: Ripping festival trailer DVD to DCP (ultimately)
Post by: hdvprojection on March 18, 2012, 10:10:48 PM
Tried conforming to all DCP specifications while rendering with Pitivi. No luck. The one thing that sticks out is that Pitivi doesn't offer uncompressed audio as an output option. I believe wav is where it's at, but no wav option, only A-Law, AAC, several FFMPEGs and several LAMEs.

Any ideas? Should I be posting in the Pitivi forum instead?
Title: Re: Ripping festival trailer DVD to DCP (ultimately)
Post by: walterlionguy on March 19, 2012, 12:48:07 AM
Hi There,

The first step here is to get your image sequence generated (TIFF or DPX).  You load this sequence into OpenDCP for JPEG2000 encoding, and then have your final JPEG2000 sequence wrapped into MXF by OpenDCP, no need to do this separately.  Normally I use avisynth imagewriter to generate the TIFF images from a video stream, but an easier solution I think is to use Adobe Premiere or Apple Quicktime to generate the TIFF sequence (or so I hear, iv never installed Quicktime but everyone tells me it does this).  OpenDCP can resize the images for you to DCI spec in the encoding process.

Do you have access to adobe audition?  Its my preferred tool for this sort of thing.  You could use it to convert some of those formats you mentioned to 24bit WAV, and it can also change your audio length accordingly as your DCP framerate will need to be 24fps (your dvd is most likely currently at 23.976fps).  The audio and video will not sync up properly unless you do this.  I can easily help you with the time calculations.  Remember that you need to have separate mono WAV files to import in OpenDCP.

First work on the image sequence. 
Once that is out of the way, do the audio.  You need a tool for this, if you don't have access to Audition I can try and help you find an alternative.

Walter
Title: Re: Ripping festival trailer DVD to DCP (ultimately)
Post by: Terrence Meiczinger on March 19, 2012, 01:02:49 AM
MXF is merely a container format which can contain picture and sound essences of many different types. In the case of digital cinema it needs to be Jpeg2000 meeting digital cinema specifications. The audio is contained in a separate MXF file as uncompressed24-bit 48khz PCM wav container files.

Walter is pointing you in the right direction.
Title: Re: Ripping festival trailer DVD to DCP (ultimately)
Post by: hdvprojection on March 19, 2012, 01:12:39 AM
Okay, you've lost me. I can't just generate an MXF file from the original video? I did get Pitivi to behave finally, by the way, all but the uncompressed audio.

I'm on Ubuntu, so some of the commercial options are limited. I can theoretically run them all via virtual box or wine or such, but results tend to be sketchy.

I'm going to research Linux options for image sequence. Thanks for the reply, and please keep helping. :)

OK, just saw Terrence's reply. Pitivi did allow me to set parameters that to the untrained eye looked very much in compliance with DCP... Jasper JPEG2000 image codec, 24fps, 1998x1080 "Flat" aspect, 24-bit sample depth at 48KHz sample rate, etc. What you're saying is the underlying structure within the mxf container is still not JPEG2000? What gives?
Title: Re: Ripping festival trailer DVD to DCP (ultimately)
Post by: hdvprojection on March 19, 2012, 01:18:35 AM
Just found this: http://dcinemaforum.com/forum/index.php?topic=2.msg2#msg2

Looks like I have my work cut out for me, but a 90-second festival trailer should be just the thing to try the process out on.

Edit: OK, wait. Let's assume I have a DVD-quality VOB file ripped from the disc, fest.vob. I also have an edited AVI file (with the color bars and such cut out), fest.avi. Can someone give me an ordered list of steps to produce a DCP, or at least a functioning MXF?
Title: Re: Ripping festival trailer DVD to DCP (ultimately)
Post by: Terrence Meiczinger on March 19, 2012, 01:24:43 AM
Quote
OK, just saw Terrence's reply. Pitivi did allow me to set parameters that to the untrained eye looked very much in compliance with DCP... Jasper JPEG2000 image codec, 24fps, 1998x1080 "Flat" aspect, 24-bit sample depth at 48KHz sample rate, etc. What you're saying is the underlying structure within the mxf container is still not JPEG2000? What gives?

There a tons of options and variations of JPEG2000 and Jasper does not create digital cinema compliant JPEG2000. In addition the MXF files must also meet digital cinema specifications. This is why it is better to use a separate tool for the DCP process whose sole purpose is to make DCPs. I know it is tempting to shortcut the process by going direct to MXF or whatever, but unfortunately this is going to lead to more headaches and confusion. You must also create separate audio and picture MXFs.
Title: Re: Ripping festival trailer DVD to DCP (ultimately)
Post by: Terrence Meiczinger on March 19, 2012, 01:29:14 AM
Quote
Edit: OK, wait. Let's assume I have a DVD-quality VOB file ripped from the disc, fest.vob. I also have an edited AVI file (with the color bars and such cut out), fest.avi. Can someone give me an ordered list of steps to produce a DCP, or at least a functioning MXF?

Regardless of your original source, it needs to get to the same point....

8/16/24-bit TIFF or DPX image sequence (24, 25, 30, etc fps... so you may need to rate conform)
24-bit 48khz PCM audio files (1 mono wav per channel)

Once you have that... OpenDCP can do the rest.

http://code.google.com/p/opendcp/wiki/Documentation
Title: Re: Ripping festival trailer DVD to DCP (ultimately)
Post by: walterlionguy on March 19, 2012, 01:30:40 AM
What Terrence is implying is that MXF is a container, nothing else.  Its used to store many different types of media formats (in this case JPEG2000), hence the name 'Material eXchange Format'.

I would strongly recommend leaving all MXF sound+video wrapping here to OpenDCP.   The only things you need are 24bit WAV files and TIFF/DPX images to put into OpenDCP.

If you need this done fast, it would hep to get a windows session running in virtualbox or vmware with one of those programs I mentioned (adobe premiere will have this ready quickly by itself).  Also keep in mind the hard drive size you will need to store these pictures.  12 minutes of uncompressed flat 1998x1080 TIFF files @ 24fps should easily exceed 100gb.
Title: Re: Ripping festival trailer DVD to DCP (ultimately)
Post by: Terrence Meiczinger on March 19, 2012, 01:49:28 AM
FFmpeg will do the job pretty easily. This post is outdated in some regards, but the section on FFmpeg still holds true...

http://dcinemaforum.com/forum/index.php?topic=6.0
Title: Re: Ripping festival trailer DVD to DCP (ultimately)
Post by: hdvprojection on March 19, 2012, 03:44:26 AM
Had a problem right away with FFmpeg:

ffmpeg -y -i sample.mp4 -an -r 24 -vcodec tiff tif/%06d.tif
ffmpeg version 0.7.3-4:0.7.3-0ubuntu0.11.10.1, Copyright (c) 2000-2011 the Libav developers
  built on Jan  4 2012 16:21:50 with gcc 4.6.1
  configuration: --extra-version='4:0.7.3-0ubuntu0.11.10.1' --arch=i386 --prefix=/usr --enable-vdpau --enable-bzlib --enable-libgsm --enable-libschroedinger --enable-libspeex --enable-libtheora --enable-libvorbis --enable-pthreads --enable-zlib --enable-libvpx --enable-runtime-cpudetect --enable-vaapi --enable-gpl --enable-postproc --enable-swscale --enable-x11grab --enable-libdc1394 --enable-shared --disable-static
  WARNING: library configuration mismatch
  avutil      configuration: --extra-version='4:0.7.3ubuntu0.11.10.1' --arch=i386 --prefix=/usr --enable-vdpau --enable-bzlib --enable-libgsm --enable-libschroedinger --enable-libspeex --enable-libtheora --enable-libvorbis --enable-pthreads --enable-zlib --enable-libvpx --enable-runtime-cpudetect --enable-vaapi --enable-libopenjpeg --enable-gpl --enable-postproc --enable-swscale --enable-x11grab --enable-libdirac --enable-libmp3lame --enable-librtmp --enable-libx264 --enable-libxvid --enable-libvo-aacenc --enable-version3 --enable-libvo-amrwbenc --enable-version3 --enable-libdc1394 --shlibdir=/usr/lib/i686/cmov --cpu=i686 --enable-shared --disable-static --disable-ffmpeg --disable-ffplay
  avcodec     configuration: --extra-version='4:0.7.3ubuntu0.11.10.1' --arch=i386 --prefix=/usr --enable-vdpau --enable-bzlib --enable-libgsm --enable-libschroedinger --enable-libspeex --enable-libtheora --enable-libvorbis --enable-pthreads --enable-zlib --enable-libvpx --enable-runtime-cpudetect --enable-vaapi --enable-libopenjpeg --enable-gpl --enable-postproc --enable-swscale --enable-x11grab --enable-libdirac --enable-libmp3lame --enable-librtmp --enable-libx264 --enable-libxvid --enable-libvo-aacenc --enable-version3 --enable-libvo-amrwbenc --enable-version3 --enable-libdc1394 --shlibdir=/usr/lib/i686/cmov --cpu=i686 --enable-shared --disable-static --disable-ffmpeg --disable-ffplay
  avformat    configuration: --extra-version='4:0.7.3ubuntu0.11.10.1' --arch=i386 --prefix=/usr --enable-vdpau --enable-bzlib --enable-libgsm --enable-libschroedinger --enable-libspeex --enable-libtheora --enable-libvorbis --enable-pthreads --enable-zlib --enable-libvpx --enable-runtime-cpudetect --enable-vaapi --enable-libopenjpeg --enable-gpl --enable-postproc --enable-swscale --enable-x11grab --enable-libdirac --enable-libmp3lame --enable-librtmp --enable-libx264 --enable-libxvid --enable-libvo-aacenc --enable-version3 --enable-libvo-amrwbenc --enable-version3 --enable-libdc1394 --shlibdir=/usr/lib/i686/cmov --cpu=i686 --enable-shared --disable-static --disable-ffmpeg --disable-ffplay
  avdevice    configuration: --extra-version='4:0.7.3-0ubuntu0.11.10.1' --arch=i386 --prefix=/usr --enable-vdpau --enable-bzlib --enable-libgsm --enable-libschroedinger --enable-libspeex --enable-libtheora --enable-libvorbis --enable-pthreads --enable-zlib --enable-libvpx --enable-runtime-cpudetect --enable-vaapi --enable-gpl --enable-postproc --enable-swscale --enable-x11grab --enable-libdc1394 --shlibdir=/usr/lib/i686/cmov --cpu=i686 --enable-shared --disable-static --disable-ffmpeg --disable-ffplay
  avfilter    configuration: --extra-version='4:0.7.3-0ubuntu0.11.10.1' --arch=i386 --prefix=/usr --enable-vdpau --enable-bzlib --enable-libgsm --enable-libschroedinger --enable-libspeex --enable-libtheora --enable-libvorbis --enable-pthreads --enable-zlib --enable-libvpx --enable-runtime-cpudetect --enable-vaapi --enable-gpl --enable-postproc --enable-swscale --enable-x11grab --enable-libdc1394 --shlibdir=/usr/lib/i686/cmov --cpu=i686 --enable-shared --disable-static --disable-ffmpeg --disable-ffplay
  swscale     configuration: --extra-version='4:0.7.3ubuntu0.11.10.1' --arch=i386 --prefix=/usr --enable-vdpau --enable-bzlib --enable-libgsm --enable-libschroedinger --enable-libspeex --enable-libtheora --enable-libvorbis --enable-pthreads --enable-zlib --enable-libvpx --enable-runtime-cpudetect --enable-vaapi --enable-libopenjpeg --enable-gpl --enable-postproc --enable-swscale --enable-x11grab --enable-libdirac --enable-libmp3lame --enable-librtmp --enable-libx264 --enable-libxvid --enable-libvo-aacenc --enable-version3 --enable-libvo-amrwbenc --enable-version3 --enable-libdc1394 --shlibdir=/usr/lib/i686/cmov --cpu=i686 --enable-shared --disable-static --disable-ffmpeg --disable-ffplay
  postproc    configuration: --extra-version='4:0.7.3ubuntu0.11.10.1' --arch=i386 --prefix=/usr --enable-vdpau --enable-bzlib --enable-libgsm --enable-libschroedinger --enable-libspeex --enable-libtheora --enable-libvorbis --enable-pthreads --enable-zlib --enable-libvpx --enable-runtime-cpudetect --enable-vaapi --enable-libopenjpeg --enable-gpl --enable-postproc --enable-swscale --enable-x11grab --enable-libdirac --enable-libmp3lame --enable-librtmp --enable-libx264 --enable-libxvid --enable-libvo-aacenc --enable-version3 --enable-libvo-amrwbenc --enable-version3 --enable-libdc1394 --shlibdir=/usr/lib/i686/cmov --cpu=i686 --enable-shared --disable-static --disable-ffmpeg --disable-ffplay
  libavutil    51.  7. 0 / 51.  7. 0
  libavcodec   53.  6. 0 / 53.  6. 0
  libavformat  53.  3. 0 / 53.  3. 0
  libavdevice  53.  0. 0 / 53.  0. 0
  libavfilter   2.  4. 0 /  2.  4. 0
  libswscale    2.  0. 0 /  2.  0. 0
  libpostproc  52.  0. 0 / 52.  0. 0

Seems stream 0 codec frame rate differs from container frame rate: 1073741824.00 (1073741824/1) -> 24.00 (24/1)
Input #0, mov,mp4,m4a,3gp,3g2,mj2, from 'sample.mp4':
  Metadata:
    major_brand     : mp42
    minor_version   : 0
    compatible_brands: mp42mp41isomiso2
    creation_time   : 2012-03-19 07:28:54
  Duration: 00:00:29.37, start: 0.000000, bitrate: 1952 kb/s
    Stream #0.0(eng): Video: h264 (Main), yuv420p, 1998x1080 [PAR 1:1 DAR 37:20], 1818 kb/s, 24 fps, 24 tbr, 2400 tbn, 1073741824.00 tbc
    Metadata:
      creation_time   : 2012-03-19 07:28:54
    Stream #0.1(eng): Audio: aac, 48000 Hz, stereo, s16, 127 kb/s
    Metadata:
      creation_time   : 2012-03-19 07:28:54
[buffer @ 0x93849c0] w:1998 h:1080 pixfmt:yuv420p
Output #0, image2, to 'tif/%06d.tif':
  Metadata:
    major_brand     : mp42
    minor_version   : 0
    compatible_brands: mp42mp41isomiso2
    creation_time   : 2012-03-19 07:28:54
    encoder         : Lavf53.3.0
    Stream #0.0(eng): Video: tiff, yuv420p, 1998x1080 [PAR 1:1 DAR 37:20], q=2-31, 200 kb/s, 90k tbn, 24 tbc
    Metadata:
      creation_time   : 2012-03-19 07:28:54
Stream mapping:
  Stream #0.0 -> #0.0
Press ctrl-c to stop encoding
[image2 @ 0x9378480] Could not open file : tif/000001.tif
av_interleaved_write_frame(): Input/output error


Made sure to keep it all easy by naming the file "sample.mp4". And yes, it is an actual mp4, I didn't just change the extension. Although the codec used is H.264 / AVC, not sure if that makes any difference.
Title: Re: Ripping festival trailer DVD to DCP (ultimately)
Post by: Wolfgang Woehl on March 19, 2012, 05:44:44 AM
ffmpeg -y -i sample.mp4 -an -r 24 -vcodec tiff tif/%06d.tif
[image2 @ 0x9378480] Could not open file : tif/000001.tif
av_interleaved_write_frame(): Input/output error

Apparently the "tif" directory you intend to write to doesn't exist.
Title: Re: Ripping festival trailer DVD to DCP (ultimately)
Post by: Terrence Meiczinger on March 19, 2012, 09:55:03 AM
Thanks Wolfgang. There was a typo in my command. If you were following the guide, the directory you created in the previous step was "tiff" not "tif".
Title: Re: Ripping festival trailer DVD to DCP (ultimately)
Post by: hdvprojection on March 19, 2012, 11:07:36 PM
So, a whole lot of good news and progress, and one (hopefully) final bump:
Code: [Select]
The duration of all MXF tracks must be the same.I produced the audio track using exactly the command provided
Code: [Select]
ffmpeg -y -i sample.mp4 -acodec pcm_s24le -r 24 -ar 48000 audio/sample.wavI just made sure to switch out the file names for the correct ones. Any ideas? Try again, or edit it the wav with something like audacity?

By the way, thank you, thank you, thank you to all. You guys are good.    :)
Title: Re: Ripping festival trailer DVD to DCP (ultimately)
Post by: Wolfgang Woehl on March 20, 2012, 02:36:00 AM
Code: [Select]
The duration of all MXF tracks must be the same.
Check the "Duration" field for both "Picture" and "Sound". When you load an asset here these fields initially show the intrinsic durations of the selected MXF containers (which can differ, in this case probably not by much). In a composition reel both assets have to play for the exact same time, obviously. So set both values to be the same (not higher than common max though) and you're good to go.
Title: Re: Ripping festival trailer DVD to DCP (ultimately)
Post by: hdvprojection on March 20, 2012, 03:56:13 AM
Where is the "duration" field? I missed that somehow. Anyway, I got around the problem by producing an mp4 instead of the avi I had been using. Not sure why it made any difference, but there you go. Success!

I produced a DCP, and already ingested it onto the server in question. Unfortunately this was all way past closing time, so tomorrow I'll shine it on screen and check audio sync and compare resolution to the original DVD. Can't be any worse, but we'll see.

In the meantime, thank you all yet again for your help. Is there any chance that the video file-to-TIFF portion of the procedure might get its own tab within opendcp? Or also the wav extraction? I actually did split the one wav file that the command line produced into mono left and right with audacity. Otherwise, where do I put the one stereo wav file when making MXF files? Not clear on that.
Title: Re: Ripping festival trailer DVD to DCP (ultimately)
Post by: walterlionguy on March 20, 2012, 04:36:15 AM
Glad to hear you made progress!  Once you get the hang of it, its really not that hard to work with generating image sequences and dealing with WAV extraction/resampling.  It may seem tedious at first, but its the industry standard for pre digital cinema creation.  You could test it right now with a trial of fraunhofer easyDCP Player if you wanted to, but it's Mac/Win only.

Please keep us posted on the result when you strike an arc and check your DCP tomorrow!  :)
Title: Re: Ripping festival trailer DVD to DCP (ultimately)
Post by: hdvprojection on March 20, 2012, 09:11:49 PM
Oh, well... so much for that. The image is perfect. I would swear it looks better than on the DVD, but I don't know how that is possible.

The audio, on the other hand... not so much. Sound like a basso profundo space alien talking, like a tape deck where the tape would get stretched out, or the deck's motor was going bad. Sounds slow and low, and slightly garbled.

I listened to both wav files I produced with audacity, and they sound great. The "left" wav track only comes out the left speaker (or headphone) and the "right" only out the right. What gives? Any clues?

If I use just the one wav track that is produced from the command line that Terrence posted (rather than producing discreet left and right,) where do I place it when selecting files to create the MXF? just on the left, right or both?
Title: Re: Ripping festival trailer DVD to DCP (ultimately)
Post by: hdvprojection on March 20, 2012, 10:21:06 PM
Wait a second... if each wav file is only playing out of one channel, then they are not, in fact, mono, but rather stereo with (effectively) a muted second channel. Correct? Could this be the cause of the problem? Does each absolutely need to be mono?
Title: Re: Ripping festival trailer DVD to DCP (ultimately)
Post by: walterlionguy on March 21, 2012, 05:12:16 AM
Each WAV file must be entirely mono, meaning no left/right channels in one file (muted or not).  You play one of the files, and it should come out of both left+right speakers.  If you play your left WAV and you are hearing sound from the left speaker only, and the opposite is happening with the right file, your WAV files are wrong (meaning they contain a second channel).  Try correcting this, and then make a new DCP to see if this resolves the issue.

Keep us posted!  :)

Edit: To answer your question about plugging in the WAV files into OpenDCP, both left and right parameters must each point to separate mono files, again which contain one channel each.  The same principal applies to 5.1 or 7.1 DCP's.
Title: Re: Ripping festival trailer DVD to DCP (ultimately)
Post by: hdvprojection on March 21, 2012, 03:57:25 PM
Success! I corrected the issue with audacity, splitting the stereo into mono channels, rather than into left and right as before. Sound is very good, but it does appear to be lagging slightly behind the picture, a few frames maybe, but noticeable. Anything to be done about this? What could be causing this problem? Normally I associate this with progressive scan options when ripping and encoding, which I try to avoid.

Also, how do you guys produce your mono wavs? I take it there's no problem with using audacity, so long as the wavs are of equal length to each other and to the image file, correct?
Title: Re: Ripping festival trailer DVD to DCP (ultimately)
Post by: walterlionguy on March 21, 2012, 05:03:55 PM
Believe it or not, iv never had a need to convert a DVD to DCP yet, only converted blu-ray and blu-ray 3D to 2D/3D DCP's.  With blu-ray you can use eac3to to extract the DTS-HD Master or Dolby Tru-HD 5.1/7.1 into mono WAV's, and then change the length accordingly to match 24fps.

Also, is the audio as a whole lagging behind the picture from beginning to end?  That alone would be a sign of extra blank space appearing in the picture or audio.  Or does it fall out of sync as the DCP plays?  Did you change the length of the audio? (remember this step must take place!)  If you forget this, when you take your 23.976fps NTSC dvd and convert it to 24fps, the video will end up appearing on screen faster than the audio, noticeably more so as the movie progresses.  When you say lagging slightly behind picture, I am assuming you mean the picture appearing, and the audio playing (lagging) after.

Can you provide us with the complete frame count of your DCP?  I can then give you an Hour/Min/Sec time calculation that your audio must be for 24fps playback.
Title: Re: Ripping festival trailer DVD to DCP (ultimately)
Post by: hdvprojection on March 21, 2012, 09:33:20 PM
Did you change the length of the audio? (remember this step must take place!)  If you forget this, when you take your 23.976fps NTSC dvd and convert it to 24fps, the video will end up appearing on screen faster than the audio, noticeably more so as the movie progresses.  When you say lagging slightly behind picture, I am assuming you mean the picture appearing, and the audio playing (lagging) after.

Can you provide us with the complete frame count of your DCP?  I can then give you an Hour/Min/Sec time calculation that your audio must be for 24fps playback.
Whoa, whoa, whoa... nobody ever told me this! I didn't sign up for this!

Kidding. OK, so can someone point me to the description of audio length and why it need to be modified? Yes, the picture appears, the guy's mouth opens, and a few frames late his words come out. Sadly I already deleted that projects tiff, j2k and audio files so as to free up space for the longer version of the same festival's trailer, this one with an added sponsor or something. Let's see if it happens again to this one.

Is it definitely going to happen if I don't modify the length of the wav? I thought the wav and the image file(s) had to be exactly the same length, and if they weren't the process couldn't move forward. Being that it did proceed, they must have been the same length, QED. No?

Edit: Just to get this out ahead of time, this next trailer I'm working on is 27,337 frames (or TIFF images, at least.)
Title: Re: Ripping festival trailer DVD to DCP (ultimately)
Post by: hdvprojection on March 22, 2012, 12:50:36 AM
OK, this only appears to be working with mp4 files. I tried an avi and a vob, and with both there was an incongruity with the length of the mxf files produced. Perhaps the command line I'm using from Terrence's post only applies to mp4s, I'd have to assume.

Edit: the total frames from the mp4 I'm using is 27,355.
Title: Re: Ripping festival trailer DVD to DCP (ultimately)
Post by: walterlionguy on March 22, 2012, 05:21:36 AM
Quote
OK, so can someone point me to the description of audio length and why it need to be modified?

You have content that is 23.976fps originally, and your manually making an image sequence out of it.  You must change the speed of the audio accordingly that you extracted as the video plays slightly faster in your DCP compared to the dvd.  The audio speed needs to be changed so it can properly match up with the new 24fps video.

Quote
Yes, the picture appears, the guy's mouth opens, and a few frames late his words come out

Although the above step is something you must do, if you do forget it, the sound should not immediately be out of sync, it should very slowly fall out of sync.  If the sound is immediately delayed there is probably blank space at the beginning of your audio files.  This may have something to do with the program (audacity) that you used.  Make absolute sure that its an identical copy of the audio which came out of your mp4 file, and then change speed once you confirm that.  Also, double check that your image sequence frame count is exactly equal to the frame count in the mp4, as they must match.  I think its unlikely that frames were dropped when you made the image sequence, but we need to be sure.

27,337 frames @ 24fps = 1139.0416 seconds, or... 18min 59.0416 seconds
27,355 frames @ 24fps = 1139.7916 seconds, or... 18min 59.7916 seconds.  Round off to the closest number possible that your editor allows.
Title: Re: Ripping festival trailer DVD to DCP (ultimately)
Post by: hdvprojection on March 22, 2012, 06:46:19 AM
OK, then, so theoretically this next one is going to be waaaaaaayyyy off, since it starts with a fifteen-minute slide show (no sound) before going into more or less the same video as the first one, where I could just notice the lag.

So, am I clipping a certain amount from the front of the wav, then stretching the remainder? If so, what's a good way to do that? Audacity (plus a calculator) will do, I hope?
Title: Re: Ripping festival trailer DVD to DCP (ultimately)
Post by: walterlionguy on March 22, 2012, 05:16:45 PM
Just making sure, but when changing the length of your WAV's, you have to change the file as a whole (your making the sound play slightly faster) to get the different length.  You cannot just clip/ad sound from the beginning or end too match your desired length.

Assuming you did a frame count check with the MP4 + your image sequence, and they showed up the same, I would promptly dump whatever tools you are using to extract/modify the WAV's.  Try finding an alternative.  Its a very straight forward process and I think one of the programs you are using is messing around with them.  If you properly extract it straight from your MP4 file (which plays fine) and change the length to suit 24fps playback, it will work if done properly, guaranteed.
Title: Re: Ripping festival trailer DVD to DCP (ultimately)
Post by: hdvprojection on March 22, 2012, 06:28:30 PM
There's something I'm not getting. Opendcp will not allow me to create a DCP from MXFs that do not match up lengthwise. If the WAVs I'm producing are, say, 18:59 and the J2Ks add up to 18:59 in their respective MXFs, then... ? How are they winding up out of sync?

Mind you, I had to leave work last night without completing the second, longer version of the trailer, so for all I know it's going to be perfectly fine. Also, I should check the MP4 I produced from the VOB, to see if that's where the issue is arising. Otherwise it doesn't make sense to my brain.
Title: Re: Ripping festival trailer DVD to DCP (ultimately)
Post by: Terrence Meiczinger on March 23, 2012, 12:33:59 AM
All durations (frame count) MUST be the same per DCI specifications. While their duration may be the same in seconds, they may have a different number of frames. This is could happen because you created an audio MXF at 25fps and the picture MXF at 24fps. However, more likely, it's because the duration of your audio was a frame or two longer or shorter than the video. This is common, because most editing packages don't enforce your audio duration to equal your video duration. If your editing packages allows you to view in frame, you'll likely see the difference. The same is true for formats like MP4, they don't enforce audio/video to frame align. In any case, it is not a big issue and you can adjust for this in the GUI. Just reduce duration of the whichever is longer.
Title: Re: Ripping festival trailer DVD to DCP (ultimately)
Post by: hdvprojection on March 24, 2012, 10:32:07 PM
Which is exactly what I did. It looks and sounds perfect. Like I said before, the image somehow miraculously looks better than the source, and I can't wrap my brain around that at all. I cannot thank all of you enough. You rock.

The theater chain I'm working for this festival is asking about converting screener Blu-rays to DCP, so as to streamline presentation and scheduling of shows. I will therefore be coming back here to ask a LOT of questions about that. I don't suppose someone could anticipate my questions and point me towards a particularly useful discussion about this topic here? Thanks again.
Title: Re: Ripping festival trailer DVD to DCP (ultimately)
Post by: walterlionguy on March 24, 2012, 11:17:38 PM
Awesome!  Glad to hear the success!  I can almost guarantee that you will see the same improvement with blu-ray converted to JP2K DCP.  I have never liked using the DVI input for anything but a computer.  I have compared blu-rays, with the same discs converted to DCP in different auditoriums and the difference is night and day.  The colour, gamma, and contrast look far better IMO.

For this, blu-ray's I find quit easy to deal with, besides the disc encryption at times.  Chances are the disc usually has a DTS-HD Master or Dolby Pro-HD audio stream, which is trivial to extract/split into the 6 or 8 WAV channels needed for surround sound.  You still need to change the length however for 24fps playback.

Be prepared to deal with the large amount of disc space needed for 1+ hour blu-rays too, if that's how long the screeners are.  On average I end up consuming close to 1TB when decompressing a typical 1+ hour blu-ray movie into TIFF/BMP images.  ;D
Title: Re: Ripping festival trailer DVD to DCP (ultimately)
Post by: hdvprojection on March 25, 2012, 11:23:13 PM
OK. New problem. My DCP works fine on the Doremi I'm using, but the fellow running the same fest at another venue can ingest but cannot run it on his Dolby server. Any ideas? I sent it to him on a Verbatim flash drive, fat32 I believe. Has anyone had issues with Dolby servers?
Title: Re: Ripping festival trailer DVD to DCP (ultimately)
Post by: walterlionguy on March 26, 2012, 12:27:51 AM
Format the flash drive to a linux filesystem and then try that out.  Ex2 is old, but is very popular for use on DCP drives, I guess its what most use for guaranteed compatibility.  Im not sure what model Dolby your friend is using, but I experienced trouble with a FAT32 drive and a Dolby DSP100 awhile back.  Mind you the Dolby software was a little out of date on that machine at the time.
Title: Re: Ripping festival trailer DVD to DCP (ultimately)
Post by: hdvprojection on March 26, 2012, 01:37:29 AM
Will do, but first I'm going to try this same thumb drive on a GDC within the company, see if it's only Dolbys. The model in question was a DSS 200.

May I ask what the "Add XML Digital Signatures" option does, and if that might be the culprit?
Title: Re: Ripping festival trailer DVD to DCP (ultimately)
Post by: Wolfgang Woehl on March 28, 2012, 03:06:09 AM
Re. OpenDCP's Add XML Digital Signatures option: The Wikipedia article on XML Signature (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/XML_Signature) is an ok entry-level introduction to the topic. That said: As a rule of thumb if you don't know what it does then you don't want it (applies pretty much to all cryptography-related matters).
Title: Re: Ripping festival trailer DVD to DCP (ultimately)
Post by: hdvprojection on March 28, 2012, 02:35:28 PM
So, the DCP I generated loaded up just fine on a brand new GDC, an older-than-dirt Doremi, and a Dolby DSS100 (DSP100?), but not the 200 model Dolby. One fellow I spoke with tells me that Dolbys are to servers what Sonys are to disc players; way too persnickety, not able to compensate for even the slightest error. I'd still like to figure out if there is a way to get these DCPs to work on absolutely every system. I'll test out the ext2 fs on the thumb drive and see if that makes a difference.

P.S. - I've been meaning to ask: Is this thread in the right forum?
Title: Re: Ripping festival trailer DVD to DCP (ultimately)
Post by: hdvprojection on March 28, 2012, 03:03:49 PM
Just curious about something... not that Wikipedia is the be-all and end-all of all things everything, but this article (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digital_Cinema_Initiatives#Image_and_audio_capability_overview) puts image resolution at 2048x1080 for 2k, with no mention of other resolutions, whereas this article (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digital_Cinema_Package#Technical_specifications) allows for various other image sizes. What gives? And could this be a problem with some of the servers?
Title: Re: Ripping festival trailer DVD to DCP (ultimately)
Post by: walterlionguy on March 31, 2012, 11:58:31 AM
2048x1080 is the size of the 2k image container that DCI specifies, and although it is allowable, DCP's rarely (if ever) come in this full resolution.  Common resolutions for DCP's are 'flat' 1998x1080, or 'scope' 2048x858.  See how both those resolutions fit inside the 2048x1080 container?  Most theatres have their digital projectors set up to display a scope image at the bottom of the screen and then have a curtain which comes down to hide the greyish area above the picture.
Title: Re: Ripping festival trailer DVD to DCP (ultimately)
Post by: hdvprojection on April 28, 2012, 01:13:09 AM
I have a few questions about Terrence's open source How-to:
Title: Re: Ripping festival trailer DVD to DCP (ultimately)
Post by: Terrence Meiczinger on April 30, 2012, 06:33:44 PM
I have a few questions about Terrence's open source How-to:
  • What if I don't want to produce a 24fps DCP, but rather 30fps? Which terms must I change in the commandline, and where?
  • You mention there that OpenDCP doesn't support YCbCr... is this still true today?
OpenDCP will read YCbCr.
Title: Re: Ripping festival trailer DVD to DCP (ultimately)
Post by: hdvprojection on April 30, 2012, 10:14:22 PM
I have a few questions about Terrence's open source How-to:
  • What if I don't want to produce a 24fps DCP, but rather 30fps? Which terms must I change in the commandline, and where?
  • You mention there that OpenDCP doesn't support YCbCr... is this still true today?
OpenDCP will read YCbCr.
That's where the rec. 709 option is used? Or just leave it at sRGB?