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Author Topic: Subtitle MXF  (Read 41910 times)

Joen

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Subtitle MXF
« on: March 25, 2011, 12:53:13 PM »
First of all; thank Terrence for these amazing tools!
My question: which applications are today available for the creation of subtitle MXFs? I am fairly familiar with the XMLs used for subtitles in DCPs, but have not found all that much info on subtitle MXFs. Are they simply a sequence of PNGs in a MXF wrapper in the same way that the video MXF is a series of JPEG2000 images?

Cineman

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Re: Subtitle MXF
« Reply #1 on: March 26, 2011, 07:55:44 AM »
I'm by no means an expert on this, but from what i have seen in practice D-cinema can support PNG subtitles, though i have never seen it implemented. The preferred route is to use cine-canvas and make the projector insert the subtitles. In order to do this the subtitle text has to be  wrapped into an xml file along with  font type and size info, and a time code position for in and out points and a control for its actual placement on screen. The XML file and the character font are sent to the projector via the lan connection when play is pressed. If the system is using cine link1 or the link encryption is turned off the subtitles will not be displayed if the lan connection is un-plugged. If you like i could post sample xml files from a small subtitle test dcp.

Terrence Meiczinger

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Re: Subtitle MXF
« Reply #2 on: March 26, 2011, 08:57:58 AM »
I don't have any practical experience in subtitles, so unfortunately, I'm not going to be any help.

Cineman, if you don't mind, a post about subtitles would be very helpful. I would certainly like to know more.

Cineman

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Re: Subtitle MXF
« Reply #3 on: March 27, 2011, 06:26:12 AM »
Here is the Subtitle XML file and the CPL file, as can be seen the CPL refrences the subtitle XML file as well as the audio and video files, thats the only change to the CPL.

The Subtitle XML and the Turtype font are included in a seprate sub directory in the DCP.

Another thing worth mentioning is that feature length films must be split into reels since the projector does not have enough memory to store the subtitle file and the type font.  Intermittent loss of sbtitles will be the resault. Extracting the projector logs will reveal this problem. If you like i can make the entire dcp avalible via my ftp server.
Another thing that became apprent at The Berlin festival this year is that Series 2 projectors cannot display some fonts that series 1 projectors have no trouble with.
Best to test DCP on both types of projector.

Actual Subtitle XML file named:- dolby_sub_test.xml

 <?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8" ?>
- <DCSubtitle Version="1.0">
  <SubtitleID>28d5cda7-33e3-4acc-8b71-eaf5648c7c02</SubtitleID>
  <MovieTitle>Dolby_sub_test</MovieTitle>
  <Language>English</Language>
  <ReelNumber>1</ReelNumber>
  <LoadFont Id="tt7268m_.ttf" URI="./tt7268m_.ttf" />
- <Subtitle TimeIn="00:00:00:200" TimeOut="00:00:03:000">
- <Text HAlign="center" HPosition="0" VAlign="bottom" VPosition="25">
  <Font Color="ff4200bc" Italic="no" Size="60">This is subtitle 1 of 3</Font>
  </Text>
  </Subtitle>
- <Subtitle TimeIn="00:00:04:000" TimeOut="00:00:06:000">
- <Text HAlign="center" HPosition="0" VAlign="bottom" VPosition="25">
  <Font Color="ff4200bc" Italic="no" Size="60">Now this is 2 of 3</Font>
  </Text>
  </Subtitle>
- <Subtitle TimeIn="00:00:07:000" TimeOut="00:00:09:093">
- <Text HAlign="center" HPosition="0" VAlign="bottom" VPosition="25">
  <Font Color="ff4200bc" Italic="no" Size="60">And finally 3 of 3</Font>
  </Text>
  </Subtitle>
  </DCSubtitle>

CPL File

  <?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8" ?>
- <CompositionPlaylist xmlns="http://www.digicine.com/PROTO-ASDCP-CPL-20040511#">
  <Id>urn:uuid:30e64359-92bb-24ed-71e4-d3c40a712f5f</Id>
  <IssueDate>2006-06-20T15:39:58.165+01:00</IssueDate>
  <Issuer>Dolby Laboratories Inc., UK D-Cinema Services</Issuer>
  <Creator>Secure Content Creator No. 500007 Digital Cinema Composer, Version 1.8.0.3 Project subtitle_test_j2k_1_8_0_3</Creator>
  <ContentTitleText>Subtitle and AD Test 2048x1080flat*</ContentTitleText>
  <ContentKind>test</ContentKind>
- <ContentVersion>
  <LabelText />
  </ContentVersion>
  <RatingList />
- <ReelList>
- <Reel>
  <Id>urn:uuid:e5fffcb1-a5c2-f047-cc2e-11306f17737f</Id>
- <AssetList>
- <MainPicture>
  <Id>urn:uuid:2edc623b-1273-41fc-b432-10cb626ddd70</Id>
  <EditRate>24 1</EditRate>
  <IntrinsicDuration>239</IntrinsicDuration>
  <EntryPoint>0</EntryPoint>
  <Duration>239</Duration>
  <FrameRate>24 1</FrameRate>
  <ScreenAspectRatio>1.77</ScreenAspectRatio>
  </MainPicture>
- <MainSound>
  <Id>urn:uuid:2316ae87-e627-49b0-a070-61c66306ffae</Id>
  <EditRate>24 1</EditRate>
  <IntrinsicDuration>239</IntrinsicDuration>
  <EntryPoint>0</EntryPoint>
  <Duration>239</Duration>
  <Language>en-gb</Language>
  </MainSound>
- <MainSubtitle>
  <Id>urn:uuid:28d5cda7-33e3-4acc-8b71-eaf5648c7c02</Id>
  <EditRate>24 1</EditRate>
  <IntrinsicDuration>239</IntrinsicDuration>
  <EntryPoint>0</EntryPoint>
  <Duration>239</Duration>
  <Language>und</Language>
  </MainSubtitle>
  </AssetList>
  </Reel>
- <Reel>
  <Id>urn:uuid:e5fffcb1-a5c2-f047-cc2e-11306f17737f</Id>
- <AssetList>
- <MainPicture>
  <Id>urn:uuid:2edc623b-1273-41fc-b432-10cb626ddd70</Id>
  <EditRate>24 1</EditRate>
  <IntrinsicDuration>239</IntrinsicDuration>
  <EntryPoint>0</EntryPoint>
  <Duration>239</Duration>
  <FrameRate>24 1</FrameRate>
  <ScreenAspectRatio>1.77</ScreenAspectRatio>
  </MainPicture>
- <MainSound>
  <Id>urn:uuid:2316ae87-e627-49b0-a070-61c66306ffae</Id>
  <EditRate>24 1</EditRate>
  <IntrinsicDuration>239</IntrinsicDuration>
  <EntryPoint>0</EntryPoint>
  <Duration>239</Duration>
  <Language>en-gb</Language>
  </MainSound>
- <MainSubtitle>
  <Id>urn:uuid:28d5cda7-33e3-4acc-8b71-eaf5648c7c02</Id>
  <EditRate>24 1</EditRate>
  <IntrinsicDuration>239</IntrinsicDuration>
  <EntryPoint>0</EntryPoint>
  <Duration>239</Duration>
  <Language>und</Language>
  </MainSubtitle>
  </AssetList>
  </Reel>
- <Reel>
  <Id>urn:uuid:e5fffcb1-a5c2-f047-cc2e-11306f17737f</Id>
- <AssetList>
- <MainPicture>
  <Id>urn:uuid:2edc623b-1273-41fc-b432-10cb626ddd70</Id>
  <EditRate>24 1</EditRate>
  <IntrinsicDuration>239</IntrinsicDuration>
  <EntryPoint>0</EntryPoint>
  <Duration>239</Duration>
  <FrameRate>24 1</FrameRate>
  <ScreenAspectRatio>1.77</ScreenAspectRatio>
  </MainPicture>
- <MainSound>
  <Id>urn:uuid:2316ae87-e627-49b0-a070-61c66306ffae</Id>
  <EditRate>24 1</EditRate>
  <IntrinsicDuration>239</IntrinsicDuration>
  <EntryPoint>0</EntryPoint>
  <Duration>239</Duration>
  <Language>en-gb</Language>
  </MainSound>
- <MainSubtitle>
  <Id>urn:uuid:28d5cda7-33e3-4acc-8b71-eaf5648c7c02</Id>
  <EditRate>24 1</EditRate>
  <IntrinsicDuration>239</IntrinsicDuration>
  <EntryPoint>0</EntryPoint>
  <Duration>239</Duration>
  <Language>und</Language>
  </MainSubtitle>
  </AssetList>
  </Reel>
- <Reel>
  <Id>urn:uuid:e5fffcb1-a5c2-f047-cc2e-11306f17737f</Id>
- <AssetList>
- <MainPicture>
  <Id>urn:uuid:2edc623b-1273-41fc-b432-10cb626ddd70</Id>
  <EditRate>24 1</EditRate>
  <IntrinsicDuration>239</IntrinsicDuration>
  <EntryPoint>0</EntryPoint>
  <Duration>239</Duration>
  <FrameRate>24 1</FrameRate>
  <ScreenAspectRatio>1.77</ScreenAspectRatio>
  </MainPicture>
- <MainSound>
  <Id>urn:uuid:2316ae87-e627-49b0-a070-61c66306ffae</Id>
  <EditRate>24 1</EditRate>
  <IntrinsicDuration>239</IntrinsicDuration>
  <EntryPoint>0</EntryPoint>
  <Duration>239</Duration>
  <Language>en-gb</Language>
  </MainSound>
- <MainSubtitle>
  <Id>urn:uuid:28d5cda7-33e3-4acc-8b71-eaf5648c7c02</Id>
  <EditRate>24 1</EditRate>
  <IntrinsicDuration>239</IntrinsicDuration>
  <EntryPoint>0</EntryPoint>
  <Duration>239</Duration>
  <Language>und</Language>
  </MainSubtitle>
  </AssetList>
  </Reel>
- <Reel>
  <Id>urn:uuid:e5fffcb1-a5c2-f047-cc2e-11306f17737f</Id>
- <AssetList>
- <MainPicture>
  <Id>urn:uuid:2edc623b-1273-41fc-b432-10cb626ddd70</Id>
  <EditRate>24 1</EditRate>
  <IntrinsicDuration>239</IntrinsicDuration>
  <EntryPoint>0</EntryPoint>
  <Duration>239</Duration>
  <FrameRate>24 1</FrameRate>
  <ScreenAspectRatio>1.77</ScreenAspectRatio>
  </MainPicture>
- <MainSound>
  <Id>urn:uuid:2316ae87-e627-49b0-a070-61c66306ffae</Id>
  <EditRate>24 1</EditRate>
  <IntrinsicDuration>239</IntrinsicDuration>
  <EntryPoint>0</EntryPoint>
  <Duration>239</Duration>
  <Language>en-gb</Language>
  </MainSound>
- <MainSubtitle>
  <Id>urn:uuid:28d5cda7-33e3-4acc-8b71-eaf5648c7c02</Id>
  <EditRate>24 1</EditRate>
  <IntrinsicDuration>239</IntrinsicDuration>
  <EntryPoint>0</EntryPoint>
  <Duration>239</Duration>
  <Language>und</Language>
  </MainSubtitle>
  </AssetList>
  </Reel>
- <Reel>
  <Id>urn:uuid:e5fffcb1-a5c2-f047-cc2e-11306f17737f</Id>
- <AssetList>
- <MainPicture>
  <Id>urn:uuid:2edc623b-1273-41fc-b432-10cb626ddd70</Id>
  <EditRate>24 1</EditRate>
  <IntrinsicDuration>239</IntrinsicDuration>
  <EntryPoint>0</EntryPoint>
  <Duration>239</Duration>
  <FrameRate>24 1</FrameRate>
  <ScreenAspectRatio>1.77</ScreenAspectRatio>
  </MainPicture>
- <MainSound>
  <Id>urn:uuid:2316ae87-e627-49b0-a070-61c66306ffae</Id>
  <EditRate>24 1</EditRate>
  <IntrinsicDuration>239</IntrinsicDuration>
  <EntryPoint>0</EntryPoint>
  <Duration>239</Duration>
  <Language>en-gb</Language>
  </MainSound>
- <MainSubtitle>
  <Id>urn:uuid:28d5cda7-33e3-4acc-8b71-eaf5648c7c02</Id>
  <EditRate>24 1</EditRate>
  <IntrinsicDuration>239</IntrinsicDuration>
  <EntryPoint>0</EntryPoint>
  <Duration>239</Duration>
  <Language>und</Language>
  </MainSubtitle>
  </AssetList>
  </Reel>
  </ReelList>
- <Signer>
- <ds:X509Data xmlns:ds="http://www.w3.org/2000/09/xmldsig#">
- <ds:X509IssuerSerial>
  <ds:X509IssuerName>O=DC.Cinea.Com,OU=CA.DC.Cinea.Com,CN=Root.CA.DC.Cinea.Com,2.5.4.46=\+62TOmhFLtn\+1966oRy3Bk9codM=</ds:X509IssuerName>
  <ds:X509SerialNumber>22</ds:X509SerialNumber>
  </ds:X509IssuerSerial>
  </ds:X509Data>
  </Signer>
- <ds:Signature xmlns:ds="http://www.w3.org/2000/09/xmldsig#">
- <ds:SignedInfo>
  <ds:CanonicalizationMethod Algorithm="http://www.w3.org/TR/2001/REC-xml-c14n-20010315" />
  <ds:SignatureMethod Algorithm="http://www.w3.org/2000/09/xmldsig#rsa-sha1" />
- <ds:Reference URI="">
- <ds:Transforms>
  <ds:Transform Algorithm="http://www.w3.org/2000/09/xmldsig#enveloped-signature" />
  </ds:Transforms>
  <ds:DigestMethod Algorithm="http://www.w3.org/2000/09/xmldsig#sha1" />
  <ds:DigestValue>emNmL2afJNhAGbozzz6w2ricjrU=</ds:DigestValue>
  </ds:Reference>
  </ds:SignedInfo>
  <ds:SignatureValue>en3kx0j/ODFm+KYXl82gQyUpwgg/VscZtRIJDs/FHErLjwKRb/8p/NO81InpIA56EsDVsvyPFcoO ZPoytOIuQZ535xSqjEjDeo65nlH8eSh7BZ6IWgBeOlj6RxpyuMU7BDXUT8cDXM8Weq5aurGWaOmC Nxt4uWxDI4pOGm6Pr53ivqIP5brx9xNRkFvIIVEB2yi2bx7FQ686QaYMd9iVed8uDfmx5kNZGldu xbbUSLCNRexHZqrN/tq17nFUVbh/7gbPf7B1qRUOrQthzfJxBIHtbJT14GHXJRNijDpnlrc7KKp0 gewg+qDzxX/0sZR072kR5PsMeUaPw16cNLiLkA==</ds:SignatureValue>
- <ds:KeyInfo>
- <ds:X509Data>
- <ds:X509IssuerSerial>
  <ds:X509IssuerName>O=DC.Cinea.Com,OU=CA.DC.Cinea.Com,CN=Root.CA.DC.Cinea.Com,2.5.4.46=\+62TOmhFLtn\+1966oRy3Bk9codM=</ds:X509IssuerName>
  <ds:X509SerialNumber>22</ds:X509SerialNumber>
  </ds:X509IssuerSerial>
  <ds:X509Certificate>MIIERzCCAy+gAwIBAgIBFjANBgkqhkiG9w0BAQUFADB3MRUwEwYDVQQKEwxEQy5DaW5lYS5Db20x GDAWBgNVBAsTD0NBLkRDLkNpbmVhLkNvbTEdMBsGA1UEAxMUUm9vdC5DQS5EQy5DaW5lYS5Db20x JTAjBgNVBC4THCs2MlRPbWhGTHRuKzE5NjZvUnkzQms5Y29kTT0wHhcNMDUwMjA4MjIzMDU3WhcN MTAwMjA3MjIzMDU3WjBzMREwDwYDVQQLEwhEb2xieSBTTTEVMBMGA1UEChMMREMuQ2luZWEuQ29t MSAwHgYDVQQDExdTTS5Eb2xieS1TQ0MxMDAwLTUwMDAwNzElMCMGA1UELhMcSktpcEFHVnBQYitp QzFJa2dZMGFVZExHUEtBPTCCASIwDQYJKoZIhvcNAQEBBQADggEPADCCAQoCggEBAKW8/0QDWXfe h9+0hUldQAh0hF6c+8JZnMHn//sBgOJ9zWSbDREjlA/FU+6ZMVpz6D8vRRYH71LlnROmupGdViik A7wMluIZggAkeoXdUKI5SgdkFxc4/1qRvGsKhbe2W5WCH0xRA3syNernPqilh4DMP8J5FfTDXsL+ rQFGCUEns1PPFhzfQnAu9I3doDDVdGPMHRP774p8/c5mRo5vos/MtXbbALBTAv3xEazRzwvTVlDS QXUcdCBX1yEAnAwKU0f1cMU56IeKPCXze4WqaKQu+dGPk9TQenpMjY6ST6xYwhtx0Yod9R9DOuyV 41v7SoEmuQPWAW5C/ATvus+JZ+kCAwEAAaOB4TCB3jCBoQYDVR0jBIGZMIGWgBT7rZM6aEUu2f7X 3rqhHLcGT1yh06F7pHkwdzEVMBMGA1UEChMMREMuQ2luZWEuQ29tMRgwFgYDVQQLEw9DQS5EQy5D aW5lYS5Db20xHTAbBgNVBAMTFFJvb3QuQ0EuREMuQ2luZWEuQ29tMSUwIwYDVQQuExwrNjJUT21o Rkx0bisxOTY2b1J5M0JrOWNvZE09ggEAMB0GA1UdDgQWBBQkqKkAZWk9v6ILUiSBjRpR0sY8oDAM BgNVHRMBAf8EAjAAMAsGA1UdDwQEAwIEsDANBgkqhkiG9w0BAQUFAAOCAQEAIRmwF5/hrrd7BkAG iZym3NhHJM9W5lixaGnZOj458MYVy9DInehgJCJ2m2fuFhGDNaCdi+tUeK3TH8ECbkJr9NKR10Ma ypd0fBKb+xSOgjV3jKg7QDxPlJKjORNmRCCOtrhKVpCIREeM+k7XfgBKsloA8ZLq6hMFVlE/NsRn QIrRf0wXR+CfFm/7GFJHxjti0osuYWER2Agd5tnnoAIvHkEskXTV+DGbA+TeqWMB789/BJr3AG0h +pjEFCBrACig71Tym2R2NOJ6X8pwT+QgAf2RZ6B3LQupQ907vNNOw7XDGZw9gd4s7h/eeFut8qGO UkEqOdFoFOhIOhzQOBcTMg==</ds:X509Certificate>
  </ds:X509Data>
- <ds:X509Data>
- <ds:X509IssuerSerial>
  <ds:X509IssuerName>O=DC.Cinea.Com,OU=CA.DC.Cinea.Com,CN=Root.CA.DC.Cinea.Com,2.5.4.46=\+62TOmhFLtn\+1966oRy3Bk9codM=</ds:X509IssuerName>
  <ds:X509SerialNumber>0</ds:X509SerialNumber>
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MrHawk

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Re: Subtitle MXF
« Reply #4 on: March 28, 2011, 04:21:56 AM »
My experience with xml subtitle, when doing this manually I need to add the font and xml subtitle to the PKL otherwise the DCP won't work.
Terrence let me know if I should send you the xml files for a working DCP with xml subtitle.

Joen

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Re: Subtitle MXF
« Reply #5 on: March 28, 2011, 05:10:50 AM »
Great info, thanks!
I have several tools that can produce the subtitle XML, but what about the PKL and CPL files? I have seen that EasyDCP Creator can handle subtitle XMLs, but are there other tools that do this too or are the PKL and CPL edited manually? 
I am quite concerned about the issues mentioned (subtitle dropouts, font issues etc) and in extension the lack of control over the appearance of the subtitles which is why I am interested in the PNG route.

Cineman

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Re: Subtitle MXF
« Reply #6 on: March 28, 2011, 10:52:47 AM »
I didn't include the PKL file because i offloaded the subtitle test from a dolby server. The dolby servers don't need PKL, assetmap and volindex to be present in order to ingest and play a dcp. consiquently and anoyingly they are not present when you offload content to a removable drive.

luca

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Re: Subtitle MXF
« Reply #7 on: March 28, 2011, 10:55:45 AM »
@Joen
Please don't get confused. I think you was asking about SMPTE 429-5-2008 DCI compliant subtitle.
They are implemented in opendcp through asdcplib. With this type of subtitle you have at the start an xml containing all timing information about the
timed elements that can be 
mixed fonts, timed text and subpicture (what you actually are looking for).  Then you have to use asdcp-test to make an mxf track that wraps all of that.
Opendcp can generate automatically the pkl and cpl once you have feeded in the mxf timed text track.

This type of subtitle are not yet  widespread. But they will surely be, because they are now the standard.
I have no precise information on what  server/software does already support this type of subtitle/subpicture.
You can find all the needed information in this test package:
 http://www.cinecert.com/asdcplib/S429-5-test.tar.gz

I don't yet know  any software that support the preparation of such subtitle, do you?

What Cineman posted is the now widespread format but not a compliant DCI standard. This use an xml definition but is not the same as the xml used to get an mxf in the other case. You cannot use subpicture with this format.

@Terrence
The patch I posted some time ago was only for the mxf case. It would be better to change that to recognize the two different case of a subtitle mxf track and an xml for the cine canvas case. Otherwise one have the problem MrHawk is speaking of.

Another feature would be to feed the xml for SMPTE 429-5 subtitle  in opendcp and have straight the wrapped mxf back before packaging.








Terrence Meiczinger

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Re: Subtitle MXF
« Reply #8 on: March 28, 2011, 10:51:32 PM »
I had only ever planned on supporting SMPTE subtitles in OpenDCP. I have the MXF creation coding done in the library. I just need to write the CLI/GUI portion. Right now, its on the roadmap for a .20 release.

There is a push now to move all servers to DCI compliant software. MXF Interop has stayed around far longer than it should have. I'd prefer to concentrate development efforts on SMPTE features rather than ones that will be obsoleted in the near future.

Joen

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Re: Subtitle MXF
« Reply #9 on: March 29, 2011, 05:13:55 AM »
Ok, great info!
I have not seen a subtitler that produces an SMPTE xml but I'll keep looking. Quite a few can make the CineCanvas xml, though.
I'm having a look at the timed text example given by CineCert, but I seem to have an issue with the installed XML parsers so I have not been able to make the test subtitle MXF.

Joen

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Re: Subtitle MXF
« Reply #10 on: March 29, 2011, 08:10:33 AM »
I'll specify my issue and hopefully someone can assist me: I downloaded the test subtitle from CineCert and tried to create the MXF from the files using asdcp-test. However, I get the following error:

Kumu compiled without XML parser support

Xercesc3 and Expat are installed and asdcp-test was installed as per the instructions on this board, but something is amiss. Should something be reinstalled with different settings?

Terrence Meiczinger

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Re: Subtitle MXF
« Reply #11 on: March 29, 2011, 09:14:26 AM »
When you did the configure for asdcp, you did added --with-expat?

Joen

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Re: Subtitle MXF
« Reply #12 on: March 29, 2011, 09:47:28 AM »
No I had not. But I have now and it works. I'll get cracking on trying it out.
Thank you very much Terrence!

Cineman

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Re: Subtitle MXF
« Reply #13 on: March 30, 2011, 06:37:23 AM »
Hi Vave you checked out http://www.isdcf.com/ISDCF/Home.html very imforative. It appears only the latest version V15.1 of TI software will support smpte subtitles. I don't know any theatres that keep the projector software up to date.

An un-encrypted smpte subtitle test can be downloaded here https://dci.foxpico.com/basic/subtitle-test-v7/


Joen

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Re: Subtitle MXF
« Reply #14 on: March 30, 2011, 08:34:48 AM »
Thank you Cineman, very useful links!
I have understood that SMPTE subtitles are on the bleeding edge and support may be dodgy at the moment. I am currently looking at the various options for subtitles and while SMPTE is the viable solution in the long term, different solutions might be more useful today.
Hopefully I'll be able to try out several subtitling solutions with different servers and projectors and get a better understanding of what works where.

dcinemaforum.com

Re: Subtitle MXF
« Reply #14 on: March 30, 2011, 08:34:48 AM »